Jude Collins

Wednesday, 29 August 2012

Charlie, it looks like you were right

It’s fashionable these days to denounce Charlie Haughey as a hypocrite, a forerunner of the greed that brought the south of Ireland to its knees, probably into a bit of gun-running as well. But whatever you think of Haughey, one phrase of his has stood the test of time. “A failed state” was how he described Northern Ireland, and it looks as though Lisburn City Council, as well as a few others, are intent on proving him right.

Lisburn’s latest brainwave is to grant the freedom of the city to the Orange Order. That’s the fine body of men among whose numbers are counted those who paraded in a circle outside St Patrick’s Church on the Twelfth while playing the Famine Song. And in case we missed the point,  Loyal Order bands recently paraded again in direct defiance of the Parades’ Commission’s ruling that they must not. But then Lisburn has previous, as they say. Didn’t they construct a nice big memorial in the city to the men and women of the UDR who did so much to develop community relations in our divided society?

Add to this the stance of the DUP,  in the person of Jonathan Craig this morning on Radio Ulster/Raidio Uladh,  where he refused to criticize these brave law-breakers but instead criticized the PSNI’s representative, who’d said he thought the Parades’ Commission rulings should be observed, at least until something better was in place.

Charlie, thou should'st be living at this hour. Here we are, fourteen years on from the Good Friday Agreement, and the desire among some sections of unionism to stick it to the Croppies burns as brightly as it ever burned in the bosoms of their bigoted forefathers. 


  1. And where is the Deputy First Minister when all this coat-trailing by his D U P friends is going on?Surely he should be having a "full and frank discussion" with his best friend Peter.On second thoughts,it's much easier for him to have photo opportunities and travel abroad with the First Minister.No doubt it will soon be business as usual up at Stormont where both parties will continue their spinning to keep their respective tribes happy!

  2. Jude, sit back, relax, take some popcorn.
    They've single handedly stopped themselves marching past that church ever again.

    so thats Portadown, Ormeau and now at St Pats... every time they get on like this, they lose support from their own communities, harden the resolve of those who are against them and fracture their organisation.

    the OO will realise too late that digging in the heels, misbehaving, not respecting people will only be their downfall.

    let them.

    In lisburn the next stage is to put the freedom of the city to an 'equality' test, Sadly (and it speaks volumes about lisburn) it'll pass that.

    1. "so thats Portadown, Ormeau and now at St Pats." ? only where the political will exists to stand up to them

  3. Jude
    I believe it was the Shankill band that marched around in circles,being stupid and offensive. Not sure if any Orangemen were involved other than by implication.
    Having said that the OO (and RBI) is desperately in need of reform and clearly rebranding as Orangefest has not solved the underlying problems.
    A smarter PR move would have been to readily agree to the small restriction of no music outside the church. They would have lost nothing and gained a little respect.

    1. Gio the OO don't do smart they do aggro

  4. I firmly believe that if the music past churches and other contentious areas were to be reduced to a single drum beat, no parade hangers-on and blue baggers then we could do away with the residents protests. This in turn would, after a year or two, see a great reduction in the number of contentious parades as the bandsmen wouldn't want to walk where they couldn't aggravate the local catholic/nationalist population.

  5. " A smarter PR move" ( Love that phrase.) But, hey,a smarter PR move would have been to ban ALL parades/ marches and lock up all OO members in a lunatic asylum.
    Maybe if our American cousins had made that move, they could have saved many lives.

    1. Jim Lynch
      Yes let's lock everybody up that we don't agree with.
      Good plan.
      Do you mean ban all parades? By everyone?
      In the real world we have to deal with the Orange Order, and others who enjoy formation walking. I'm never going to join them and neither, I suspect, are you. But they aren't going away you know.
      So yes we should encourage the OO to do a bit of smarter PR.
      Better for them, better for us. Better for the residents involved. Everyone wins.
      Or we can just lock everybody up.

  6. giordanobruno: I did not say "lock everyone up we don't agree with," you said that. Please don't put words in my mouth.
    Now in the real world we don't have to deal with bigotry by ignoring it.
    The Orange Order is an anti-Catholic bigoted organization and absolutely refuses to tolerate their Catholic follow human beings.
    The history of the OO is disgraceful and even the British government found it necessary to ban Orange marches between 1832-44 and 1850-72.
    Why, because they caused mayhem, destruction of property, personal injury and death!
    They are still doing this. Remember the little Quinn children?
    Once again if you are going to debate an issue with me don't put words in my mouth. And don't generalize, it weakens your argument.

  7. JIm Lynch
    I stand corrected. You did not say lock everyone up you don't agree with. What you said was:
    "ban all parades/marches and lock up all OO members in a lunatic asylum". Correct?
    Is that a realistic solution, do you think?
    I am not defending the OO here. They cause a lot of problems.
    I am trying to say they need serious reform. Do you agree or do you think they are beyond reform?

  8. The Orange Order is an anti-Catholic organization. Their hatred of Catholics is their raison de d'etre. Therefore serious reform is impossible.
    There would need to be a total metamorphosis with this sectarian organization and you know that will never happen. By the way if it did, then the OO would cease to exist.

  9. Jim Lynch
    I suspect many Orangemen, particularly in rural areas would not recognise themselves as actively hating Catholics.
    So I think your view is rather extreme.
    In principle Orangemen are supposed to love their RC neighbours, whilst hating Catholicism.
    As in hating the sin but loving the sinner (from their point of view!).
    So if they were to start applying that principle they would become a more benign organisation.
    I am not overly optimistic about that, but perhaps over time...

  10. "The World Book Multimedia Encyclopaedia writes.. The Orange Order is a Protestant organization in Northern Ireland. It has long sought to keep Protestants in power in the country and to maintain Northern Ireland's union with Britain. The Orange Order was founded in 1795 by Anglican Protestant farmers in County Armagh, Ireland. It grew out of a conflict between Protestant and Roman Catholic farmers who were bidding to become tenants on the same farmlands. The Protestant farmers joined together to drive Catholic families out of the region."

    I copied and pasted the above to show you how convoluted your logic is.
    To describe my view as "rather extreme" is nonsense 'giordanobruno.'
    You are either totally naive or deliberately being an apologist for the Orange Order.
    This is my last word on this matter.
    Have a nice day.

  11. Jim Lynch
    How the Orange Order came into being does not predetermine how they may develop in the future.
    So I will continue to hope they will evolve into a more benign organisation.
    Change is always possible. Let us leave it there.
    Have a good day yourself Jim